Jody Wilson-Raybould says she faced intense political pressure and veiled threats related to the SNC-Lavalin affair, and was warned directly by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau about the negative consequences if the company faced prosecution.
Here are five things Canadians learned from former attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould, in her testimony Wednesday at the House of Commons justice committee.
1. Wilson-Raybould said there were at least 10 phone calls and 10 different meetings, as well as several text messages, about the SNC-Lavalin case, between her or senior members of her staff and 11 people in the Prime Minister's Office and other departments, between Sept. 4, 2018 and Dec. 18, 2018. One of those meetings was between her and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
She said she began to be concerned immediately about what she viewed as pressure on her to overturn the decision not to negotiate a remediation agreement with SNC-Lavalin but that her concerns were heightened as the calls and meetings continued even after she said she had made up he mind not to arrange for a deal.
2. Wilson-Raybould was informed on Sept. 4 that the director of public prosecutions had decided not to pursue a remediation agreement with SNC-Lavalin, but rather continue with a criminal prosecution of SNC-Lavalin.
She said she conducted her own due diligence and by Sept. 16 had made up her mind that she would not overrule the director's decision or take over the prosecution herself.
The law gives her the authority to do either but Wilson-Raybould said an attorney general has never taken over a prosecution and directives to the public prosecutor have been used only for general policies, not specific cases.
Wilson-Raybould said it wouldn't be appropriate to discuss what research she undertook, or why she made the decision she made, citing concerns about affecting ongoing court cases in the matter.
Wilson-Raybould said she felt once she had made up her mind, it was inappropriate to have further conversations about the matter.
Liberal MP Randy Boissonnault argued that decisions on prosecutions continue throughout a case and wondered whether Wilson-Raybould believed she should continue to accept information that might affect the case.
"I was entirely comfortable that I had the appropriate context in which to make my decision," she said.
3. The conversation Wilson-Raybould had with Trudeau on Sept. 17 alarmed her when he talked about SNC-Lavalin's importance in Quebec, and the fact that he is a Quebec MP.
She believed that distracted from appropriate concerns in considering a remediation agreement, such as saving the jobs of innocent people or the public interest more broadly. She asked him if he was interfering in her role as an independent attorney general and that she would strongly advise against that. She said Trudeau said, "No, no, no, we just need to find a solution."
4. Wilson-Raybould believed Privy Council clerk Michael Wernick was issuing "veiled threats" to her in a phone call they had on Dec. 19, 2018, in which he told her that the prime minister was still concerned and wanted to know why a deferred-prosecution agreement wasn't being pursued. She said Wernick told her: "I think (the prime minister) is going to find a way to get it done one way or another. He is in that kind of mood and I wanted you to be aware of it."
5. The Liberal MPs on the committee asked Wilson-Raybould many times why, if she had so many concerns about being improperly pressured regarding the SNC-Lavalin prosecution, she didn't resign earlier as the attorney general, and why she accepted a new cabinet job as the minister of veterans affairs when she felt she was being shuffled for not doing what the prime minister wanted.
Wilson-Raybould's response continued to be that she was doing her job as the attorney general, and upholding the integrity of the office. She told the committee if a directive to proceed to a deferred prosecution had been made while she was the veterans-affairs minister, she would have resigned from cabinet immediately.
She did end up resigning on Feb. 12 but said she could not say why, saying an order freeing her from obligations of cabinet confidentiality and solicitor-client privilege did not extend to the period after she was no longer the attorney general.
Jody Wilson-Raybould says she doesn’t anticipate being kicked out of Liberal caucus. "I was elected by the constituents of Vancouver Granville to represent them as a Liberal member of parliament" #cdnpoli pic.twitter.com/qH6S5jaFvm
— Power & Politics (@PnPCBC) February 28, 2019
Timeline: SNC-Lavalin and Jody Wilson-Raybould
OTTAWA — A chronology of events in the SNC-Lavalin controversy:
Feb. 19, 2015 - The RCMP lays corruption and fraud charges against Montreal-based engineering and construction firm SNC-Lavalin, over allegations it used bribery to get government business in Libya.
SNC-Lavalin says the charges are without merit and stem from "alleged reprehensible deeds by former employees who left the company long ago." A conviction could bar the company from bidding on Canadian government business, potentially devastating it.
Oct. 19 - The Liberals win a federal election, taking power from the Conservatives. Two weeks later, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau names Jody Wilson-Raybould minister of justice and attorney general of Canada. She is the first Indigenous person to hold the post, which combines duties as a politician (heading the Department of Justice) and a legal official (overseeing prosecutions).
March 27, 2018 - The Liberals table a budget bill that includes a change to the Criminal Code allowing "remediation agreements," plea-bargain-like deals between prosecutors and accused corporations in which they can avoid criminal proceedings by making reparations for previous bad behaviour. SNC-Lavalin had lobbied for such a provision in Canadian law.
Spring - Although the bill has yet to pass, SNC-Lavalin contacts Public Prosecution Service lawyers to ensure they have all relevant information for a possible invitation to negotiate a remediation agreement. During the next three months, in response to requests from prosecutors, SNC-Lavalin provides detailed information it sees as making a strong case for an agreement.
Sept. 4 - The prosecution service tells SNC-Lavalin it will not invite the firm to negotiate a remediation agreement.
Sept. 17 - Trudeau and Wilson-Raybould discuss the SNC-Lavalin file. As attorney general, Wilson-Raybould could overrule the prosecution service, directing it to negotiate an agreement with the company. (Trudeau later says Wilson-Raybould asked him if he planned to tell her what to do concerning the prosecution — a conversation he says ended with him telling her any decision was hers alone. Wilson-Raybould later says she asked Trudeau if he was politically interfering with her role as attorney general. She says he told her no, that the government just needs to find a solution on SNC-Lavalin.)
Sept. 18 - SNC-Lavalin representatives meet with Privy Council clerk Michael Wernick, Canada's most senior public servant, and Finance Minister Bill Morneau to discuss issues including "justice and law enforcement."
Sept. 21 - The remediation-agreement provisions come into legal force.
Indigenous women are the most dignified, courageous, strong, intelligent, capable, genuine, talented, honourable, uncompromising, committed, caring & loving.
— Nahanni Fontaine (@NahanniFontaine) February 28, 2019
You’re welcome Canada. #JodyWilsonRaybould
Oct. 9 - The prosecution service confirms in writing it will not invite SNC-Lavalin to negotiate a remediation agreement, a decision the company challenges in Federal Court. That challenge is ongoing.
Oct. 10 - SNC-Lavalin issues a news release saying it strongly disagrees with the director of prosecutions' position and remains open and committed to negotiating a remediation agreement. SNC-Lavalin shares fall nearly 14 per cent, closing at $44.86 on the Toronto Stock Exchange. That's the lowest close since March 2, 2016.
Oct. 11 - SNC-Lavalin meets with Elder Marques, a senior adviser in the Prime Minister's Office, to discuss "justice and law enforcement."
Nov. 5 and 19 - SNC-Lavalin meets with Mathieu Bouchard, another senior adviser in the Prime Minister's Office, to discuss "justice and law enforcement."
December - According to the Prime Minister's Office, Wilson-Raybould raises the remediation case with Gerald Butts, the prime minister's principal secretary, and he tells her to talk to Wernick, the Privy Council clerk.
Canada, take note: this is what you get when you elect indigenous women to parliament.
— Bhutila Karpoche (@BhutilaKarpoche) February 27, 2019
Today @Puglaas showed strength and integrity, speaking truth to power.
When you put people ahead of partisan success, everyone wins. #JodyWilsonRaybould #SNCLavalin #cdnpoli #ParkHP
Jan. 14, 2019 - Trudeau shuffles his cabinet after the resignation of Treasury Board president Scott Brison. Wilson-Raybould is moved from Justice to Veterans Affairs, widely seen as a demotion. David Lametti, a Montreal MP and former law professor, becomes justice minister. Wilson-Raybould posts a long letter outlining her record as justice minister and noting a great deal of work remains to be done toward reconciliation with Indigenous Peoples.
Feb. 7 - Citing unnamed sources, the Globe and Mail newspaper reports that Trudeau's aides attempted to press Wilson-Raybould, while attorney general, to intervene in the prosecution of SNC-Lavalin, and that exasperation with her lack of co-operation was one reason for shuffling her out of the justice portfolio. Trudeau denies any impropriety. Wilson-Raybould says solicitor-client privilege prevents her from speaking about dealings she had on the case while attorney general.
Feb. 11 - Ethics commissioner Mario Dion says he's beginning an investigation. Trudeau says he's spoken to Wilson-Raybould and confirmed with her that he said any decision on the SNC-Lavalin prosecution was entirely hers. Her continued presence in his cabinet speaks for itself, he says.
Feb. 12 - Wilson-Raybould resigns as veterans-affairs minister and hires former Supreme Court justice Thomas Cromwell to advise her on the limits of solicitor-client privilege. Trudeau says he's surprised and disappointed that Wilson-Raybould has quit, and that if she felt undue pressure in her role as attorney general, she had a duty to report it to him.
Since the beginning of the SNC-Lavalin affair, Liberals have been trying to turn it into a debate about the company itself. That is not the case.
— Guy Caron (@GuyCaronNPD) February 27, 2019
From the beginning, something much more fundamental has been at stake: judicial independence.#cndpoli #JodyWilsonRaybould #SNCLavelin
Feb. 13 - The House of Commons justice committee debates its own probe of the issue. Liberals use their majority on the committee to call one closed-door meeting and hear from senior officials (Lametti as justice minister, the top bureaucrat in his department, and the Privy Council clerk) who can talk about the tension between the minister of justice's duties as a politician and his or her responsibilities as attorney general of Canada. The Liberals say this is a first step in a cautious investigation, but the opposition calls it a coverup.
Feb. 15 - Trudeau says Wilson-Raybould asked him in September whether he would direct her one way or another on the SNC-Lavalin question. He says he told her he would not.
Feb. 18 - Butts resigns as Trudeau's principal secretary. He denies any impropriety, but says his presence in the Prime Minister's Office has become a distraction.
Feb. 19 - Wilson-Raybould stuns observers by attending a meeting of the very cabinet from which she had resigned a week earlier. Trudeau says she had asked to speak there and was invited to do so, but cabinet confidentiality means nothing can be revealed about why or what was said. After the meeting, Wilson-Raybould says she is still talking to her lawyer about what she can and can't say publicly.
Feb. 20 - Trudeau says that while an airing of the facts is needed, he is confident the examinations underway by the ethics commissioner and the justice committee will provide it. The Liberals use their House of Commons majority to defeat an opposition motion calling for a public inquiry into allegations the Prime Minister's Office pressured Wilson-Raybould.
Some of today's headlines. What do you think?#cdnpoli #lavscam pic.twitter.com/m1azqMVUNN
— Conservative Party (@CPC_HQ) February 28, 2019
Feb. 21 - Wernick launches a vigorous defence of the government's handling of the criminal prosecution of SNC-Lavalin, bluntly declaring allegations of political interference to be false and even defamatory. The Privy Council clerk also challenges Wilson-Raybould's assertion that solicitor-client privilege prevents her from responding to allegations.
Feb. 25 - Trudeau partly waives both solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidentiality for his former attorney general, paving the way for Wilson-Raybould to tell her side of the SNC-Lavalin saga to the justice committee and ethics commissioner. The order specifically notes, however, that she cannot speak publicly about communication she had with Kathleen Roussel, the director of public prosecutions.
Feb. 27 - Wilson-Raybould tells the justice committee she experienced relentless pressure — including veiled threats — from the Prime Minister's Office, the Privy Council Office and the finance minister's office to halt the prosecution of SNC-Lavalin. She says Trudeau and others repeatedly brought up the risks to the company if it were convicted and that a provincial election in Quebec was a major concern for the federal Liberals. Wilson-Raybould adds she believes she was shuffled out of the justice portfolio because she refused to give in.
'An inappropriate effort': Quotes from Wilson-Raybould at justice committee
OTTAWA — Quotes from former justice minister Jody Wilson-Raybould's appearance before the House of Commons justice committee, Feb. 27, 2019:
"For a period of approximately four months, between September and December of 2018, I experienced a consistent and sustained effort by many people within the government to seek to politically interfere in the exercise of prosecutorial discretion in my role as the attorney general of Canada, in an inappropriate effort to secure a deferred-prosecution agreement with SNC-Lavalin." — Jody Wilson-Raybould —
"There were express statements regarding the necessity of interference in the SNC-Lavalin matter, the potential of consequences, and veiled threats if a DPA was not made available to SNC." — Jody Wilson-Raybould
Everything you need to know about the SNC-Lavalin Scandal.
— Conservative Party (@CPC_HQ) February 22, 2019
Retweet this video so that more Canadians can learn about this scandal!https://t.co/RKwFclTBRW #CdnPoli #LAVSCAM pic.twitter.com/Gtvpa41o5E
"I was concerned that the reason why I was being shuffled out of the minister of justice and attorney general possibly was because of a decision I would not take on SNC and the DPA. I raised those concerns with the prime minister and with Gerry Butts, and as I said in my remarks, those were denied." — Jody Wilson-Raybould
— "The conversations that I had, where they became very clearly inappropriate, was when political issues came up, like the election in Quebec, like losing the election if SNC were to move their headquarters." — Jody Wilson-Raybould
— "I was taught to always be careful what you say because you cannot take it back. I was taught to always hold true to your core values and principles and to act with integrity. These are the teachings of my parents, my grandparents and my community. I come from a long line of matriarchs and I am a truth teller in accordance with the laws and traditions of our big house. This is who I am and this is who I always will be." - Jody Wilson-Raybould
— "I believe if we believe you, which I do, that there is no other conclusion that one can reasonably draw than there was a sustained consistent effort to interfere politically with the critical role an (attorney general) must play in our legal system." — NDP MP Murray Rankin
Q: What do you think of the PM again blaming Scott Brison and leaving the investigation to the Ethics Commissioner?
— OLO/BCO Comms (@OLO_BCO_Comms) February 28, 2019
A: That’s ridiculous.
#cdnpoli #lavscam pic.twitter.com/VU6q4CtXYO
"I just want to start off by saying that I believe every word that you said today. And I appreciate your honour and I appreciate your honesty and I appreciate your integrity and grit in coming forward in the way that you have." - Deputy Conservative Leader Lisa Raitt
— "Wouldn't it be fair to say that a decision to continue with a prosecution is never final, and is subject to re-evaluation ... so the AG should have an open mind? The decision is never final. You have to continually assess new facts and new information." — Liberal MP Randy Boissonnault